how to ketosis

meredith:hello, everyone, and welcome to cellularhealing tv. i’m your host meredith dykstra, and this is episode 144.today, guys, we havea really special show for you, and we have a very special guest joining dr. dan pompa,our resident cellular healing specialist, and i. today we have another amazing teammember of ours. that is ms. errin smith out in california who is also a keto queen. shehas been delving into the keto lifestyle and has been part of our lifestyle for a while.helping us do a lot of amazing things. welcome, errin. tell us a little bit about what you’redoing, and why you’re on our keto q & a episode.errin:thanks, guys. it is so fun to be here. i feel like a kid on christmas morning. thisis so fun, so thank you. yes. i’ve working

with you guys for a few years now, been inthe health industry for, gosh, almost ten now. working with practitioners, with high-endsupplements in the past, and now i’m hanging out with you guys. just complete health nut,follow dr. pompa like nobody’s business. now i get to work with you guys, and it’sso wonderful and helping spread the message about true cellular detox.just felt really called to just help the change the world in a really big way, and that’swhat we’re doing with this epidemic that we’re going through with toxicity. we knowketosis is a huge part of part of the healing, and so learning about it over the past yearshas been so fun. i’m just, obviously, crazy about it, and that’s why we’re here. it’sawesome.

dr. pompa: i don’t want to get too far offtrack, but i always ask all our guests, hey, what’s your why, right? in other words,what drives you in this field? you have a story, so just briefly tell your story. imean, you’re driven. errin:oh, yeah. back in the day, before iknew much, i had a—i mean, i’ve been in the health—i mean, i’m learning abouthealth for i don’t know how many years now. thought i was doing things right and reallyinto fitness and health. i was like, oh, i’ll do a detox, and i did this detox. let’ssay i learned the hard way about detox. i was very, very—i got very sick for a whileand just really changed my life in a really big way. long story short, fast forwardingto now, i—what we’re doing helping with

everyone that’s toxic but mostly down incalifornia here, with the autism spectrum down here, i mean, that’s really why i’mhere is to help those kids that are going through massive health issues. i went throughit myself as well, and that’s why i’m here.dr. pompa:yeah. you did detox wrong, and literally, i mean, it put you in the hospital.errin:yeah. i almost didn’t make it out, i mean, but again, it led me to here. it wasa blessing in disguise and the best thing that could’ve ever happened to me.dr. pompa:then you ran into one of our doctors who are trained in true cellular detox. hesays, look, this is the way you have to do it, and you have been on board with us eversince. i mean, you do. you promote all the

true cellular detox, cytodetox. you’re aconnection to our doctors. you really are. educating our doctors on how to put this intheir practice, i mean, that’s part of what errin does.errin:yeah. yeah. dr. pompa:okay. that brings us to today’stopic. look, the three of us have experimented with fasting, which i think is another show,ketosis and all these things. you girls always raise amazing questions, right? i think beingat the seminar, even more questions got raised, right? we had 200 and some doctors there.we were doing blood testing, ketone testing, and glucose testing on them showing them howto determine if someone’s fasting or if they’re going into gluconeogenesis. youhad so many great questions, and meredith

and i were like we’ve got to do a show.look, fire away. i mean, honestly, i think we should just go through some of these questions.i promise you. our viewers and listeners have these questions too.errin:yeah, exactly. meredith:a lot of them are from doctors. theyare from viewers. we get phone calls. we get emails. we get so many of the same questionsbecause we talk a lot about ketosis, so this episode is dedicated to that. if you guyshave future questions, we can do future shows, but we had to start somewhere. errin put someof these things together, and this is really exciting.dr. pompa:yeah. it’s a great list, a great list of questions. let’s jump in.meredith:jump in, awesome. all right, so one

of the questions we get a lot, how shouldathletes and non-athletes who are struggling with adrenal fatigue approach ketosis?dr. pompa:yeah. if an athlete’s struggling with adrenal fatigue, i would immediatelysay overtraining, overtraining, overtraining. rest more, right?errin:that would be me. dr. pompa: yeah. rest more. that’s the biggestmistake in the athletic world is people over train, but let’s talk about adrenal fatigue.i mean, adrenal fatigue is obviously very common, right? we know that any type of stress,physical, chemical, or emotional, can—the adrenals are the downstream whipping boy,that they have to adapt. here’s the thing. it may take longer for someone with adrenalfatigue to get into ketosis. however, they

do. then it becomes less of a stress. oncethe cell, the mitochondria, becomes an efficient fat burner, there’s frankly less stressbecause you’re not getting the glucose rises and the glucose drops.we look at what the adrenals do. it has to deal with that day in, day out. those typesof rises and falls are very stressful and create a lot of stress into the whole endocrinesystem and, obviously, affecting the adrenals. yes. could you do some adrenal support? wetalk about the seriphos. we talk about ga and other ways to support the adrenals, ofcourse, but i believe ketosis really is a tremendous asset to adrenal fatigue.meredith:mm-hmm. what if someone wanted to combine ketosis and fasting who was also experiencingadrenal fatigue? do you suggest that, or do

you think just the ketogenic diet would bemore advisable in that case? dr. pompa:look, anybody can fast, and it dependson if we’re talking about daily fasting or block fasting. daily fasting, we look atglucose, and errin, you did some experimenting on yourself like we did at the seminar. welook at glucose in ketones as a way. doing it with just a simple blood prick in the finger,doing it in the morning, and doing it before your first meal is, basically, is your bodyadapting to that intermittent fast? when you talk to jason fung, dr. fung, whohas written a couple books about this and he’s doing all this research up at the universityof toronto, he says, look, i don’t care. no matter what, someone will eventually adapt.i agree with him. however, in that interim

is what we want—we can make that adaptationmuch more pleasant. if they’re not adapting, whether it’s just low adrenals, they’llstart breaking muscle down into glucose. by looking at what the body’s doing with theirglucose and ketones throughout the day, we can determine how long that fast is, and wecan shorten it in the beginning while they’re getting better and better and more efficientat fat burning. that’s how we determine that.meredith:adding a lot fat in, if somebody wanted to do intermittent fasting but wasmoving to ketosis but was experiencing adrenal fatigue, that would maintain blood sugar andpossibly help ease the fast. correct? dr. pompa:yeah. i mean, it does. i mean, youcan add some fats in, which sometimes work

for people. sometimes they don’t so, again,looking at your glucose numbers after you take in fat. does glucose rise, or does glucosefall? if it rises, then it’s not the best thing. if it falls, then that’s a good thing,and it can be supported. however, we want to get to the point wherewe just fast, right, with very little fats. we don’t want to keep fat. the part of fastingis the fact that we want not to eat. we want to rest ourselves. we want to rest our gi.we know that, just eating nothing, you get the highest growth hormone rise, the mostinsulin sensitivity. i mean, some small amounts of calories, i don’t think that it matters,but we know that too much can take someone out of that—the benefits of fasting.here’s the other thing. to get into ketosis,

you don’t need to eat fats to get into ketosisbecause your body will eat its own fat, right? we know that a two-day water fast, we seeketones flying off the chart. you’re not eating fat because you’re burning fat. that’sa misnomer. anyways, i don’t know if that answered that at all.meredith:i think that’s such a great point to hammer home too. people think, oh, ketosis,the ketogenic diet, that they have to eat 90% fat. that it’s fat, fat, fat all thetime. just the simple water fast, when you transition yourselves over into burning theirown fat for energy, the ketones rise, and then you can shift into ketosis from justdrinking water. i think that’s a concept we forget, and maybe don’t always thinkabout or clarify enough.

errin:yeah, absolutely.dr. pompa:dominic d’agostino, he just spoke at our last seminar. he’s the one doingall these amazing studies for the defense department, for the navy seals in ketosis.he brought up a good point. he says there’s different types of going into ketosis, right?i mean, there’s the keto diet that’s 90% fat that we do for—we did for seizure patients.then there’s, basically, a modified ketosis. that’s what he said he does, and that’swhat i do, modified. i don’t eat extreme amounts of fat. i mean, considered very highfat, i’m sure it’s considered compared to the american diet. however, it’s modified,meaning that you don’t need a lot of fat to go into ketosis. you just need really qualityhigher fat.

errin:i think, if i can stem off that, that’salways one question. again, people that are really into it like i am that we want to know,okay, well, exactly how much fat? like you said, everyone is different. everyone hastheir own—their bodies are different, and their needs are different. how active theyare is different. i mean, i know some people. they start at 50% fat, 60% fat, and work theirway up. is that something that… dr. pompa:here’s really what it comes downto, right? if you decrease your carbohydrates below 50 grams, which is typically where peoplehave to be to be in ketosis, it really is—it’s a carbohydrate thing more so than a fat thing.now, too much protein will break down into sugar, so we have to consider protein as beingmoderate. we can talk about that. what happens

when you draw up your carbs and do moderateprotein? you still need to eat. where are your calories going? they have to shift tofat. do you see what i’m saying? really, the fat is more of, okay, we wantto make up the calories. what are you going to do? you make up with too much protein.you can knock you out of ketosis. you can’t do it in carbohydrates, so really, it leavesfat. really, what throws you into ketosis? it’s the lack of carbohydrates that actuallyputs you in ketosis. not the increase in fat. to answer your question, what i have a lotof my clients do is they download cron-o-meter. that’s c-r-o-n, meter, m-e-t-e-r. they trackwhat they’re eating. then if they’re saying, well, we’re looking at their numbers andto be in ketosis you want to be at least above

.5 millimolars of ketones, so we’re testingthat, and let’s say they’re not in. that cron-o-meter will let me know what to adjust.oh, my gosh, well, it could be because you’re eating too much protein, right? it could bebecause your carbohydrates aren’t low enough. some people need to go down to 20 or 30 becausethey’re that non-efficient. then what is your fat? maybe we need to give you more fatjust because you’re starving yourself, and it’s caloric restriction. does that helpthat at all? errin:yes. yes, absolutely.meredith:yeah. great point to make, just to clarify that. that brings me to two follow-upquestions with that as well, which we had gotten one in. how to test for ketosis, whichthat ties in there, and then someone asked

can you do the ketogenic diet without a gallbladder?dr. pompa:yeah. yeah. on that last note, i want to say this, errin, to make sure yourquestion is answered. it’s different for everybody. i have people, on the gallbladdernow so i’m combining these two questions, which are great, they don’t break fat downwell, right, but we want to put them into ketosis. then i lean towards more proteinbecause i have to in the hopes that we’re not using that to go into sugar. i have somepeople who can’t really do a lot of high fat because they have trouble breaking down.of course, we can assist that with some bile salt, called ox bile, 500 milligrams, 1,000milligrams per fatty meal helps. lipase is another enzyme that breaks down fat. thathelps as well, and most enzymes, like digestizyme,

it has some bile. it has some lipase, butsometimes we need to add a little extra ox bile or bile salt to break down fat.however, we still have people who struggle, so they can’t do as high of fat. literally,i put them in a ketotic state with not that high of fat just because we have to. thenit starts to become a little easier for them. then we can start to raise up their fat. ithink fat benefits us in other areas. it helps the cell membrane. it helps the brain. i mean,it’s a clean burning fuel. we want fat, but it is different for everybody, errin.errin:exactly. meredith:yeah.errin:it helps. those enzymes, that was one of my questions. thank you. i do know peoplethat they struggle to break down fat. they

love the idea of ketogenic diet, but they’rejust like i can’t break it down. what do i do? that’s perfect. thank you.meredith:yeah. that was spot on. dr. pompa:another little tip is coffee enemasor a product that we sell. you sell at revelation health called xeneplex, x-e-n-e-p-l-e-x, whichis a coffee enema and a suppository. every time i do a suppository, i do this. i knowi do that. i know i do thatâ -inaudible-. meredith:love the demo.errin:it works. dr. pompa:my children always point that outto me. dad, every time you say the word suppository, you act it out. all right, anyways, so wetake a cup of bind, which is a binder that sits in the gut, and you do a coffee enema,or you do the xeneplex. it pushes out the

bile, which often times is backed up in theliver, and it’s toxic bile. we call it hepatic biliary sludge, meaning liver bile sludge.we need to get that out of there. when we do, we’re able to break down fat more sohaving that as part of somebody’s regiment for a while until they get more efficienthelps. meredith:i know you’ve shared a little trickbefore too, but i just want to clarify the sequence. you take the bind, activated charcoal,and then you eat a fatty meal, and then you do the xeneplex suppository? is that the correctsequence? dr. pompa:yeah. you can take the bind maybe30 minutes ahead of the xeneplex or a coffee enema, and i even like to take a couple moreafter. just to clean up. the fatty meal forces

out the bile. so does the coffee enema. aswell as the xeneplex, that forces out the bile. when you eat fat, you produce bile todigest it. okay? we want to push that bile out with—and by the way, a coffee enema,it’s the caffeine that actually stimulates that bile to come out with all those toxins.then the bind is sitting in there as a catcher’s mitt so you don’t reabsorb it, but you pullit out. we’re pulling out that toxic bile, opening up the liver, and then it makes thatmore efficient, that whole process, a little trick.meredith:sorry. you do the bind or the coffee enema prior to the fatty meal?dr. pompa:yeah. you take the bind. okay? thirty minutes to an hour later you eat the fattymeal, and do the coffee enema, boom, boom,

boom.meredith:bind, food, coffee enema, got it. that’s a great tip for people that wantto detox a little bit better so awesome. then did you want to go into the testing therea little bit more with ketone testing, and what to do in the timeframe of that?dr. pompa:yeah. i wish i had mine. maybe one of you girls can show. we use precision xtrameter. that’s x-t-r-a, precision x-t-r-a. make sure it does glucose and ketones. youbuy strips that match the precision xtra. universal drug stores is a place that—universaldrugstores.comis a place to get the ketone strips for two bucks a strip as opposed to paying four onamazon. the ketone meter is about 25 bucks on amazon, so not expensive. the glucose stripsare very cheap.

the testing, when you look at the test forketones, you’re in ketosis above .5 so nutritional ketosis, .5 to about 7, 8. i’ve seen, even,people go up to 10 in a fasting situation with ketones and be just fine. if you startgoing 15, 20, 25, that’s a whole different—that’s you’re not producing any insulin, and thatcould happen with diabetics. that’s diabetic ketosis. we don’t want it. this is nutritionalketosis. i like to do it in the morning. that’s typicallyyour lowest value. if you’re in in the morning, we know you’re going to be in later. typically,your ketones will rise through the day, especially if you’re intermittent fasting. that’sa whole other subject. yeah. that’s how you test, if that helps.meredith:morning and then so if you are intermittent

fasting and in ketosis, it would be a morning.then it’s prior to your first meal, right, to measure to see where you’re at?dr. pompa: yeah. i mean, as we said, we had the adrenal conversation. is this workingfor me? i said how long someone can intermittent fast for. i always feel like before you havenew viewers we have to explain that. that means let’s say you eat dinner at 7 o’clockat night. you don’t eat your first meal until later the next day, so 7 to 7, there’s12 hours. add another six, right? that would be what? one o’clock in the afternoon wouldbe your first meal. that’s an 18 hour intermittent fast, which is a great intermittent fast.we know that all this hormone optimization happens by fasting every day, almost everyday, around anywhere between 13 hours, if

you will. i mean, there are studies that showthat there’s a benefit even as little as that. i think, as you go, more benefits occur.all the way up to even doing dinner to dinner, which is a 24 hour. okay. that’s intermittentfasting. now, to answer your question, doing morningglucose and morning ketones. glucose, you write it down, 90, ketones, .4. okay. notquite in yet. okay. what we want to see as the day goes on—we want to retest them rightbefore you eat your first meal. let’s say it’s 12 o’clock noon. okay. that’s myfirst meal. i’m going to retest it right before my first meal, and i’m going to go,okay, now let me write down my glucose and my ketones. what we want is we want glucoseto drop and ketones to rise.

now, there is factors that can throw thatoff, right? what about your morning coffee. we’ll talk about that, right? errin, youhave some experiment that you did there. then what about exercise? different types of exercisecan throw that off, right? we’ll talk more about that.let’s say you didn’t exercise. you didn’t eat. okay. let’s keep it at that, and we’llget to the other questions later. we want to see glucose drop and ketones rise. that’s,really, the magic happens. what’s happening is, the ketones, your body’s burning itsfat, making ketones as a replacement for the glucose because you’re not eating. after12 hours, your glycogen stores. that means you store your sugar in your muscles and yourliver. they’re dropping, dropping, dropping,

and your body’s making it up by burningfat. ketones rise, glucose drop. now, let’s say it doesn’t happen. yourglucose is starting to rise, and your ketones are not moving or maybe even dropping. thatmeans your body could be taking its muscle and breaking it down into sugar, multiplereasons for that. we talked about adrenals. maybe it’s another hormone issue, a thyroidcondition. we want to shorten the fast down to maybe 13 or 14 hours until we get thatefficiency going, and then we can start to spread it out again. eventually, the bodybecomes more and more efficient, and that’s the idea.meredith:i love that, and errin, i don’t know if you want to transition over into yourlittle elaborate glucose testing personal

experience. yeah. this is a good spot to maybetalk about that. errin:yeah. i’ve been doing, actually, four-dayblock fasts once a month. i’m really definitely getting my body into this state, and i loveit, right? a couple weeks ago, i came off a four-day fast, and i had my meal. didn’tbreak in very easily but maybe that’s something we can talk about. i went and worked out,and i played volleyball for two hours in the sand. i’m down on the beach here in california.it’s two-man, so i mean, it’s high intensity. i played for two hours, and had my glucoseready, grabbed it out of my bag. everyone on the court is like what are you doing? i’mlike leave me alone. i test my glucose. gosh, what was it? one-thirty i had written down.i had 130. then an hour later i checked it

again, and it dropped down to 77.dr. pompa:you checked it. yeah, great, great. let’s look at that. this was high intensity,running around, two-man volleyball. would you say that it is?errin:oh, yeah. dr. pompa:yeah, burst, boom, boom, boom.errin:burst, yes. dr. pompa:what happens when you burst? whenyou burst, your body has to release glycogen. that’s stored sugar from its liver, fromits muscles. we always expect a rise in glucose, so what you experience is absolutely normal.now, as you went on, your glucose levels, you burned up your glucose, right? your glucosethen came down, and now you were forced to use your fat for energy because your fat adapted.that may not happen for everybody. they may

have to burn up their muscle because they’renot efficient at fat burning, or they bomb. they just don’t have energy, and they goi need the sugar drink because their body’s not efficient at fat burning.yours is, so what happened is your glucose came down, leveled off, because your bodystarted burning fat as an energy source. it became very efficient at that. that’s whathappened. now, if you were completely void of all your glycogen, then you could still—andyou needed that burst, you might get a little lightheaded. that’s what happened, and thatwas normal. you had some other examples. what were some of your other ones?errin:actually, with my document—meredith has the document in front of her. there’sa couple other situations that i had, but

just in the morning, my glucose, i noticedits resting is in the 90’s. for as much as i fast, when i get into these fasted states,my glucose will go to in the 70’s, but resting is 90. i mean, does that say anything aboutstress, adrenals? dr. pompa:yeah. your morning glucose is, onaverage, about 90. is that what you’re saying? errin:mm-hmm.meredith:just for an example, your morning glucose was 95. you went paddle boarding foran hour and a half. ate fermented yogurt, and then it went down to 77.dr. pompa:yeah. yeah. again, that’s what we would expect. paddle boarding is you canuse all fat doing that, right? it’s not super high intensity where you’re postingon the thing, but you’re going like that.

when i go on a long mountain bike ride, i’mgoing to get lower glucose, or a long walk, you’re going to get lower glucose tendingdown. again, high intensity, you’re going to get that spike in glucose, and then evena drop in ketones. then doing the paddle boarding, your glucose would tend down. your ketonesare going to go which way? errin:up.dr. pompa:up, yeah, exactly. you’re burning fat. glucose, remember they move opposite,right? when we see glucose tending down, we’re going to see typically ketones tending up.we know that you were burning fat paddle boarding, and the ketones were rising, and the glucosewas dropping. okay. your morning glucose being 90, i think it’spretty normal. i mean, you tend to—your

cortisol rises in the morning, and it’sgoing to cause a little glucose release. when people start releasing around 100 or above,that’s abnormal. that could be gluconeogenesis where my body was breaking muscle down atnight. they have the inability to burn fat when they’re not eating through the night,so their body’s breaking muscle down. that’s why diabetics get their highest glucose inthe morning. their liver will start dumping glucose. their body will break muscle down,whatever it has to do because it’s not able to burn fat, but it’s a bad thing. we don’twant that. now, you’re in the 90’s. i think it’spretty normal. a little bit of cortisol rise. what we want to see now is as you don’teat through the day, as you’re intermittent

fasting, we want to see the glucose tendingdown, and we want to see the ketones rising. does that happen for you?errin:yeah. when i definitely restrict and i’m coming off of more of my fasted state,absolutely. yeah. it’s funny. when i do go to the gym right around there and i’mon that empty stomach working out, i use those battle ropes, right? i start cranking on those,and i can feel my ketones. like my brain just get that buzz. you know that’s the sign,i think. the fun part is you can just tell. you really start getting the hang of you cantell when you’re in ketosis pretty quickly. yeah. it just depends on how much—i’mstill playing with it. i’m still learning what’s right for me. i think that’s thething for athletes is learning that balance

of how long to wait for your fast, like youwere saying, plus the amount of fat, plus just your current day-to-day stress levels.things like that that you want to work around and not over train.dr. pompa:i love to exercise on the empty stomach. in the fasting state, studies showyou get your highest anabolic reaction. growth hormone goes up. testosterone goes up. youbecome more sensitive to those anabolic hormones. everything good happens. the old days, i wasone of them. thirty minutes after your exercise, eat whey protein. get some -inaudible- in.we really know today that that’s not the case, right, especially when you’re fatadapted. when you exercise and then you wait at least an hour after you exercise, you’regaining the benefit of that growth hormone

rise. by the way, you spare your muscle. that’sthe cool thing is, when you get that growth hormone rise, you’re in a—you’re sparingyour muscle. you’re protecting it, and your body’s burning its fat. you’re revvingup your hormones to replace the glycogen and burn fat. i mean, all those amazing thingshappen. we don’t want to eat right away, and we want to give our body the chance tojust appreciate those hormones, those anti-aging anabolic hormones. that was the thing.i don’t like fat before i work out. i don’t like fat during the workout. i like to reallyjust ride it out. i think that, if you’re doing something very long endurance, theremay be a time where you use a lot of your bursts. like if you’re in a race, that youmay have to eat somewhere along the road.

we know that when you’re fat adapted, meaningin a ketotic state, that your cells are using mostly fat for energy. you can go hours andhours and hours without eating because it becomes that efficient.meredith:now, just a question here too, are there gender differences with that? it seemsmaybe men can handle that a little bit more as far as going longer times, just eatingmore fat, less carbs, being—tend to shift into ketosis more easily. can you talk aboutgender differences? dr. pompa:it’s funny. you’ve been withme when we’ve asked a lot of people that question, whether it’s fung or dr. d’agostino,and they always say no. i always say, well, clinically, for me, there is. i see it. isee that thyroid, people with thyroid issues,

they take longer to adapt. we have developednow many strategies to help people keto adapt that struggle to keto adapt, or we’ve developedstrategies for people who are in ketosis and say i’m not losing weight. i mean, we coulddo a whole show right there, right? we’ve learned that some people don’t.i think women definitely fall more into the category, whether it’s because they havecertain hormone challenges. more women have hypothyroid. i’m not sure the answer, buti say, yes, women struggle a little more than men to get into ketosis, even lose weightinto ketosis. that’s my experience. meredith:then, of course, the next questionthat would be logical is so what are these strategies? someone wrote in. i don’t understandthe 5-1-1 rule, the 2-2-2 rule. i think that

could tie into this question as far as somespecific strategies for those who are having trouble keto adapting. can you explain that?it’s a lot for you, i know. dr. pompa:you’re doing a really good jobof taking the questions and transitioning into our questions that we have. diet variation,aka feast-famine cycles, is something that absolutely works. what do i mean by this?okay. there’s different ways to diet vary. seasonally, maybe you go in ketosis. i’vehad people who are struggling to get into ketosis. i say, okay, three or four monthsnow, let’s go back to a regular cellular healing diet. no grains. no sugar, maybe 100,150 grams of carbs a day but still no grains. they go back to that diet, and all of a sudden,they start losing weight. to my amazement,

i’m going why is that? that’s weird. thenyou say, okay, let’s do that for three months. let’s go back into ketosis. then they do,and all of a sudden, they start losing weight. that happened to my wife, and it’s happenedto several people. that variation causes some type of adaptation. some type of hormone optimizationthat allows them to be more efficient the next time they go into ketosis.okay. the 5-1-1 now is weekly diet variation using feast and famine cycles, okay, whichi believe we’re just imitating ancient cultures doing this. five days a week we are in a ketosis,eating a ketosis diet, or maybe even a cellular healing diet. let’s say ketosis. we’reunder 50 grams of carbs. okay? one day a week we fast. we go dinner to dinner, 24 hours.the other day and it could be random days,

not back to back, just random days, we feast.we eat more often that day, whether it’s three meals a day. we eat higher carbohydrates.let’s try to keep them healthier, although, for healthy people, it doesn’t even haveto be. they can eat pizzas and pasta. remember what’s her name that we interviewed, right?they were eating every other day, and they were just eating regular diet. it still worked,right? meredith:it did. dr. krista varady, with herfirst tests, with her experiments, yeah, “the every other day diet.”dr. pompa:right. they said it wasn’t even perfectly every other day. her thing was wejust varied it. we did feast days, fast days, and it worked. she believed it was some typeof adaptation. i agree. the feast day, for

example, my day is typically saturday or sundaywhere i eat more. i eat more of everything. i try to eat more protein, more carbs.meredith:i’m excited. dr. pompa:yeah, exactly. anyway, what it doesis this. we know this for sure. what happens is is if you’re in a ketotic state longenough, the body will think it’s starving because the insulin can get so low. then itcould start to go into gluconeogenesis, but eventually, what the body does is it wantsto survive. if it’s using mostly its energy from fat, okay, think about this, what doesit do? it can even blunt the insulin receptor and store more fat. it wants to conserve itsfat because it wants to survive. the body always wants to survive.therefore, it literally blunts the insulin

receptor, stores more fat, and all of a sudden,you’re going i’m eating 20 carbs a day. why can’t i lose this, or why is it evenincreasing? it happened to me. we throw a carb day in, and now all of a sudden yourbody starts burning fat. it says, okay, we’re not starving. let’s burn fat. we feel freeto burn. that’s what these feast days can do. they remind your body it’s not starving.it feels free to burn fat, so two days after, typically, a feast day, you’re actuallyvisibly leaner. your body starts tapping into that where it didn’t.diet variation can break you into that mode of fat burning again, whether it’s seasonalor whether it’s weekly, as i just gave an example. another one is basically a 4-2-1where we do two fasting days and one feast

day, or we could flip it. do two feast daysand one fast day and four—you get the point. it’s the variation that matters.meredith:it’s so funny. okay. errin:yeah. i am too. that podcast with yourson, dr. pompa, was such a great podcast talking about that as well. how daniel just appliedthat and how he’s transformed himself. it’s just incredible, perfect example.dr. pompa:yeah. no. what it was is it was hormone optimization, right? i know some ofyour questions too, errin, are questions that we gathered and questions you may have isabout the fasting, as far as the eating window and how to do that. i think there’s a lotof great questions in there, and that’s probably another show. i mean, i don’t know.meredith, you have the questions in front

of you. i don’t want to direct it. you directit. meredith:yeah. we’ll keep this focus onthe ketogenic diet, but we’re definitely going to do a fasting q & a show as well.any of you listening, if you have fasting questions, send those in. you can submit themon the form on dr. pompa’s website, and we’ll get those answered for sure. that’sa whole other can of worms. just with the fasting with the 5-1-1, i do want to clarify.for some people, they say, okay, fasting day, what do you mean? is that a water fast? isthat 24 hours, 36 hours? people want to know the exacts there.dr. pompa:yeah. i just say it’s dinner to dinner. it’s 24 hours, so if you eat 7 thenight before, go eat at 7 again the night

before. that’s what we call a fasting day.meredith:perfect. awesome. five days in either keto or cellular healing diet, one fast day,one feast day. the feast day i think is just so fun too. i think that that’s part ofwhat makes all of this sustainable. i was explaining the 5-1-1 to a client this morning,and she’s so excited to have a day to feast. it’s such a win-win because you get moreresults when you feast because the body can relax. it doesn’t hang onto those toxicfat stores. you can have fun and plan out those really festive fun feast meals everyweek too. it’s such a win-win in that way. i mean, i feel a major…dr. pompa:yeah. i think it’s essential. i really do. when you look at all ancientcultures, when they had food, boy, they ate,

right? i mean, that’s the thing is the bodyis all about survival. if it thinks it’s starving, that’s a problem.think about this. the ketogenic diet, remember it was called a diet that mimics fasting.you remember that. we see the same things happen in ketosis as we do when we’re fasting,right? i said we can get into ketosis fasting, or we can get into it with this diet. we seea lot of the similarities between fasting and ketosis. with ketosis, you do it longenough, just like a fast the body will go into a starvation mode, right? i mean, peoplecan fast, typically, 30, 40 days and not even hit starvation, right? eventually, it willoccur. same with ketosis, eventually, the body couldsay i’m starving. insulin gets so low. you

start burning muscle. that’s when you seepeople that are low carb. i’ve seen it. they’re fat around their waist, and they’reeating 20, 30 grams of carbs. they get less and less, even lower. why are they still fat?it’s because the body’s going to hold onto it to survive unless you throw it offwith some diet variation. meredith:it just decreases hormone sensitivity,right, is the bottom line? dr. pompa:yeah. no doubt. the body’s smartenough to say let’s blunt the insulin receptor. let’s hold onto this precious energy becausethat’s all we have. you’re not giving me any other carbohydrate. again, i thinkwhen we look at cultures, they always—we’re moving in and out of ketotic states. whenyou look at the eskimos, even when they had

the flourish of being able to eat other foods,they sure did, and during the wintertime, they would go into ketosis for long—they’rewinters are much longer. they were strong people, but they definitely held onto a littlemore fat during those times too. they had to.meredith:right. no. you can’t outsmart the innate intelligence.dr. pompa:yeah. meredith:also, the person was asking to explainthe 2-2-2 role just because the 5-1-1, the 2-2-2, they are your creation. they are sobrilliant so if you can just break that down to clarify.dr. pompa:one of the things—when people go, like errin, how much fat do i eat? it’sso hard. people get overwhelmed. just to make

sure they get a variety of different fats,we do two tablespoons of grass-fed butter, like kerrygold, and there’s others. why?it has conjugated linoleic acid. that’s a fat you actually need to burn fat. there’salso medium-chain triglycerides. those are fats that actually help us become more efficientfat burners, right? coconut oil, loaded with medium-chain triglycerides. those are fatsthat help us become more efficient fat burners so two tablespoons of coconut oil, and thenmaybe two tablespoons of olive oil or macadamia oil to bring in some monounsaturates.we’re getting a variety with the 2-2-2. then there’s actually one more too, twoteaspoons, not tablespoons, teaspoons of sea salt. why? when you’re going into ketosis,you can become electrolyte deficient because

your body starts to lose potassium, magnesium.remember dr. dominic said at the conference, for him, it’s magnesium. he starts gettingcalf cramps at night. it could be potassium, and it could be magnesium. sodium helps youmaintain those electrolytes. a good sea salt that has some other minerals in it is helpful,or you can buy an electrolyte that doesn’t have sugar in it. most do, so be careful,which is all of those, and take some extra magnesium. those are all really good tips.meredith:yeah. that’s a perfect transition into this next question. what are the bestsupplements to take during ketosis? you said the magnesium, sea salt. electrolytes, doyou have a specific brand you like, or maybe some other specific supplements that are helpfulwhen you’re in that ketotic state to optimize

it?dr. pompa:yeah. we have something called e-lyte, which is just a pure electrolyte i use allthe time that you sell in our revelation health. the magnesium malate, very absorbable. magnesiumcitrate, some do better with one versus the other and then the sea salt, the himalayansea salt. some of the different sea salts carry a lot of different minerals with it.salt also is beneficial for the adrenals so very helpful with the adrenal thing as well.those are very helpful. seriphos helps the cortisol level becausehigh cortisol levels can kick people out of ketosis. again, that helps the adrenals. seriphosis another really good one. you can mention some of the products, the fat products thatwe have there on revelation health that are

helpful as well. those are some ideas.meredith:yeah. it’s great. i know you like the ptm as well, which is the potassium sodiumstabilizer for ketosis as well, and along with all those you mentioned, yeah, some amazingfats. we have some awesome mct oil, and there’s one i really like. i’ve been likely latelytoo. it’s by ketoforce, and it’s called keto8, and it contains a special type of mct’s.they’re c8, so they’re carbon c8, like that molecule. it’s a different form ofmct. it can be a little bit easier on the stomach, and it also tends to be more ketogenic.that’s one that i like. i’ve been putting that in morning coffee.we have some x-factor butter oils, which are high vitamin butter oils, which are deliciousblended into your drinks. you’re just taking

raw. the butter pecan flavor is my personalfavorite. we have some awesome raw coconut oil, skinny & co. brand. as you say, we wantto be rotating the fats. just like everything else. it’s that constant rotation to diversifyand hit all the bases. dr. pompa:let’s go back to errin, some examples.we’re going to get this question. okay. you talk about adding these fats, and thesefats are great in ketosis. what about if we’re intermittent fasting with ketosis? what aboutmy morning coffee? you did some tests. tell us what happened with your numbers. meredith,you probably have those written down in front of you. what happened with her coffee fatexperiment? errin:yeah. from what i can remember—meredith,feel free to chime in. when i actually had

just butter in my—just without the coffee,my glucose went up. when i had coffee with butter as well, i believe—i don’t knowhow many points, but it went up. when i had plain coffee with a little bit of cream, itwent down. i’ve been doing the buttery coffee every morning. now i’m going to try justworking out on a fasted state with black coffee, and see how i do. do a little bit better.dr. pompa:no. that’s okay. coffee, it can kick in fat burning for people. when my wifedrinks her morning coffee, she gets a massive drop in glucose. just eating fats could causea rise in some people, i mean, oddly enough. again, that’s why you test, right? coffeewith fat, try just black coffee, but 30 minutes after you do your morning coffee, test yourglucose. you don’t even need your ketones.

just see what your glucose does.you have to look on an average, right? if it’s just two or three up, that could justbe the error of the machine. on average, if it stays the same or drops, then you’regood with your morning coffee, but try it different ways. if the morning coffee is notworking, add some fat. if it’s not working with the fat, try just black. you made ourpoint for us. errin:yeah. oh, man, that glucose meter has—imean, it’s changed my life. at first, i was testing my ketones. i was like, oh, yeah.i’m in ketosis. then you’re like no. it really doesn’t matter unless—you’vegot to have your glucose down. that was such a big factor for me. i’m one step furtherinto knowing what i need to be doing, which

is great.dr. pompa:we’re doing a little study of our own with dr. mercola and a group of ourdoctors where they’re all wearing a dexcom. it’s something that looks at glucose allday long, even when you’re sleeping. this is new territory. we’re learning more aboutthis. we’re doing the finger prick, but having to actually look at it all day longgives us much greater information. it really shows how different people are, right?errin:i’m jealous. where can i get one of those?dr. pompa:yeah. they’re about three grand. they’re $3500, and you have to put the insertin. hey, if you’re willing to pay, you can be part of our study. you’re welcome.errin:let’s do it. there you are.

meredith:r&d.errin:yeah. meredith:i find too, i guess just for womenand talking about the butter or fat in the coffee, that it just seems so much more protectivefor most women to have fat in their coffee versus not and especially connected to adrenalfatigue and adrenal issues. drinking black coffee, if you have adrenal issues, i’veread maybe isn’t such a great idea. dr. pompa:yeah. no, exactly. it’s true.i mean, some people, they get the vroom, and then they get dropped, right, because theiradrenals can’t handle the stimulation of coffee. i agree. i think, most of those cases,adding some of these fats to the coffee can give them a more protect effect. not everybodyso, again, test, but i do agree with that.

meredith:i don’t think you said -inaudible-.dr. pompa:what’s that? meredith:oh, go ahead.dr. pompa:no. i was going to say… i wanted to hit one thing, and we keep talkingover it. there’s that delay, right? the one thing i do want to address in ketosisbecause we’re going to get this question, and we haven’t answered it. what about thepeople who are in ketosis? they’re getting high ketone numbers, meaning they’re above.5, but they’re not losing weight, right? don’t we get that? come on. yeah. diet variation,absolutely, a part of that answer, we gave you that. okay.there’s another aspect. we’ve been talking about doing ketosis with the intermittentfasting daily. when you look at the—and

i presented some of these papers at my conference,at the seminar last week, is we know that restriction is key with ketosis, and thatreally drops the glucose. in these studies, if we don’t get a glucose drop, then wedidn’t see weight loss. if you remember that study, i presented that. therefore, thenwhat do we mean by restriction? most people think, okay, just don’t eat as much, right?stop eating. okay. all right, i’m done. i’m not going to eat as much, and you walkaway still hungry a little bit. that’s called caloric restriction. we know that doesn’twork. i don’t think i have to make that argument. how do we get the restriction then?we get it by fasting, intermittent fasting daily and ketosis. if someone’s not losingweight, if their glucose levels aren’t coming

down, then more restriction is needed, butnot eating less, eating less often. that’s why we want to push them out, and see if wecan get them out. i just had a client who said, listen, i am—hestruggled with even getting his glucose drops in the early stages, even 14 hours. now he’seating one meal a day, and he broke through. now his glucose is plummeting. i mean, hisglucose goes down to 60, even 55. his ketones go above 3, even up into the 4’s by theend of the day, so this is happening. we call that the target zone. dr. saffery calls itthe target zone, what they use for cancer. they want to see this big difference of dropin glucose and rise in ketones, but that’s when then all of a sudden weight loss kicksin. i’ve seen that enough to know that it

takes time to get there, but more restrictionis needed. therefore, we have to get that time that people are eating. eating less oftenis the key. meredith:love that. intermittent fasting,ketosis, and diet variation, it takes it all. dr. pompa:all of them.meredith:yeah. errin:it’s the magic.dr. pompa:absolutely. now, if you remember my slide at the seminar, i also said, well,if you’re not losing weight in ketosis, you could be eating too much protein, right?we’re going to do a show coming up with dr. ron rosedale who talks about why too muchprotein is dangerous because of something called mtor, so stay tuned for that, really,really important. you can be eating too much

protein that is driving gluconeogenesis, makingsugar for the protein. you could be eating too many carbs. it’s different for everybody,right, or you may need more restriction. i hope that answers that question.meredith:do you think you could add to that eating more fat as well? maybe somebody wouldn’tbe eating enough fat? dr. pompa:yeah. yeah. it may be. if they’renot eating enough fat, where are you getting your calories from?meredith:protein and carbs, yeah. dr. pompa:protein and carbs, right. the fatequation really comes from that means you’re probably not eating enough as far as per meal.remember, here’s the importance of eating a big meal, even if you’re eating one meala day. if you push it aside and say i’m

done eating, your body will eventually thinkit’s starving, so the big meal is key. we don’t eat less. we eat less often, but whenyou eat, you better eat to full. if your body thinks it’s starving, it’s going to startholding onto fat. why? it wants to live. it wants to survive.meredith:it all comes back to that, adaptation and survival.errin:yeah. it is brilliant. meredith:this is a perfect transition, again,into our next question. there was a woman at your seminar, dr. pompa, i’m sure you’llrecall, who is a big fan of exogenous ketones, which are manmade synthetic supplemental ketones.i’m sure a lot of you who are watching that are into the ketogenic diet, maybe you’veexperimented with. there’s a lot of different

brands the market. someone is wondering whatyour thoughts are on exogenous ketones. to take, to not take, if to take, which brandsyou like? what do you think there? dr. pompa:i think we’re in early experimentalphases of this, right? instead of your body burning its fat and making ketones, can wetake ketones? let’s tell what we know. we know if you take ketones, okay—which dr.dominic d’agostino who we mentioned doing those studies for the defense department,he is one of the initiators here, right, i mean, scientist who’s developing these things.if you take them, we know we can drop glucose, so some people get an initial reaction wherethey lose some weight. we know if we drop glucose, we can actually cause more fat burningand weight loss.

however, one of my fears from the beginningis, in every one of us, there’s these mechanisms where the body starts to know how much ofcertain things are in the blood, so to speak, right, out in the system. if we start to feedketones, the body will keep the ketones at a certain level. it’ll shut off fat metabolism,so the ketones come back down. too high of ketones can be dangerous as we know from diabeticketosis. this balancing act that the innate intelligence does could then shut down fatmetabolism if we keep taking ketones, so now you’re not burning your own fat. where doesthat occur? when does that occur? i don’t think we know the answer to that.i asked dominic on i think the interview we did on cell tv, and he said, yeah, we don’tknow. it could be. that woman that you said,

right, she said, well, look, i’m takingexogenous ketones. my glucose is down. her ketones were up. she was in the target range.she asked why am i not losing weight, right? she stopped losing weight. one of the doctorssaid, well, it’s probably the exogenous ketones, and i believe he’s right.her ketones are up from taking them, forcing the glucose down, but it’s obviously shuttingoff her fat metabolism. i think it can be a tool for athletes. you take ketones beforean endurance thing. man, it puts you into a fat burning. they feel great. they can golonger. no doubt an amazing tool. it could be a tool for diabetics that want to get theirintermittent fasting, and they’re getting symptoms, etc. i think it can be a tool, butlike anything, i think that we have to use

it wisely.errin:what was interesting too from my standpoint—and maybe this was just a random day, but i actuallytested my glucose after taking one of those supplements. there was a little bit of a milkproduct in it, just a little bit. i spiked up, i think, by ten points. it was reallyinteresting. dr. pompa:that was something that was in theproduct that you reacted to. errin:yeah.dr. pompa:right. there’s one called ketoforce. there’s one called…meredith:prã¼vit, keto/os, prã¼vit. dr. pompa: keto/os, there’s another onecalled ketoca. meredith:[kegenix].dr. pompa:yeah. i like the ones that just

have the beta-hydroxybutyrate, which is justpure ketones and some citric, some natural citric acid, which we know helps the uptakeof the ketones. those are some of the brands that i think have a pretty good balance there.errin:fantastic. meredith:keep testing. yeah. i took some thisweek too. i had had a couple that i tried this week too, and i definitely felt an increasein energy and cognition. you were in my brain, dr. pompa, and i don’t like the idea ofbeing dependent on a supplement to create ketones in my body. our bodies have that naturalability. we just have to train ourselves to do it. i think they can be definitely a helpfulcrutch, but for long-term use, i think it’s really questionable.dr. pompa:yeah. we want our body to—listen,

there’s more than the magic happens in ketosisthan just high ketones, right? i think there are so many things that we don’t understandyet that go on in a ketotic state. when you’re forcing yourselves to burn fat as a source,here’s one right now. we know it burns cleaner. it burns like natural gas, very clean. youdon’t need a chimney as opposed to wood where you need a chimney, right? glucose burnslike wood. when you shift your body over to this efficientfat burner, we know that we’re decreasing inflammation. just by taking ketones, arewe getting that absolute mitochondrial shift of a fat burner? i don’t think so. we wantour mitochondria to burn fat as a fuel source, producing ketones, and then we get also thebenefits of the ketones. like you said, it’s

a tool, but i think we want our bodies burningfat and making ketones ultimately. meredith:yeah, totally. awesome. errin, youhad sent in an interesting question, your friend who has had an experience with thehcg diet. errin:yeah. i was just about to ask aboutthat. yeah. that was a perfect segue. yeah. what about the people, dr. pompa, who—forexample, i have a friend. she grew up. at 12 years old, started a diet. no fat, likethe low-fat, the no-fat, fat-free this and started exercising at a young age. just hadno fat her whole life. she’s gone through some things in her lifewhere she now struggles to lose weight. she’s an extremely healthy person from the inside,but still has that weight issue. she’s tried,

i mean, honestly, a lot of things includinghcg, which worked for her for a few rounds. then it stopped working, of course, as weknow these things. for someone’s who’s been so restrictive their whole life, andthen she tried to do the ketogenic diet. again, had issues with it because of what she’dgone through. can someone bounce back do you think from that much hacking on the body?trying to figure it out and restricting the fat and all these things their whole life,can they come back? dr. pompa:no doubt. joe mercola calls it metabolic—ormitochondrial metabolic therapy where we have to fix the mitochondria, right? that’s what’sbroken. how do we do that? all these strategies that we’re talking about, right, intermittentfasting, periodic block fast and that’s

something that you heard me teach the doctorsat the last seminar, why does this work? we’re forcing the cells, the mitochondria to takeover, to adapt. eventually they do. it just takes time, right?when we’re forcing the lack of fuel to the mitochondria, whether it’s a fast or ketosis,what happens is—because her mitochondria are not utilizing fat, obviously, efficiently.in these times, we’re forcing it in a fast to use fat. it has to. eventually, the badmitochondria die, and the good ones start to multiply. it’s called autophagy. thegentleman who just won the 2016 nobel prize won it for autophagy, showing why fastingactually works for health. one of the reasons is autophagy, meaning we lose our bad cellsand we gain new ones.

eventually, yes. she just has to replace thosefaulty damaged mitochondria. just like a cancer patient, right? again, fasting, periodic fasting,daily fasting, in and out of ketosis, diet variation, all of these are the tools. i’lladd one more. this is key is the true cellular detox. toxins corrupt the mitochondria. untilwe’re upstream dealing with the toxins the right way, you’re never going to fix themitochondria, right? that’s important. errin:yeah. that’s awesome. yeah. to addto that, she also found out through her own research she has the mthfr gene, so there’smethylation issues. like you said, again, we know how to work with that. i mean, she’stried the ketogenic diet, and really loves, obviously, what it’s all about. would youthen start someone maybe at a—break them

in slowly at 50%, and then work their wayup with fat, from the fat intake standpoint because of the—in addition to the strategiesthat you were talking about? dr. pompa:yeah, exactly. look, some peoplewill gain weight from a high-fat diet and for multiple reasons, the inability to breakit down, the inability to burn it. they increase their caloric intake because they’re eatingmore fat, and not breaking it down. i mean, all these different things, reasons. however,it is different for everybody. i shift that person over to a lower fat. not low-fat buta lower fat, maybe cellular healing diet, moderate carbohydrate. to today’s standards,it’s still considered a low-carbohydrate. a hundred to 150 grams of carbs a day, that’sreally low carb.

i had a gentleman deliver something to myhouse, and he’s a talkative guy. he started telling me he had his toes removed. “yeah.you didn’t see me for a couple months.” he had his toes taken off, diabetes, right?immediately, i said, “whatever you do, don’t follow the diabetes association diet.” “yeah,they put me on a really low-carb diet.” i’m like, “oh, well, that’s good.”“yeah, they have me eating 75 grams—no more than 75 grams of carbohydrates per meal.”i’m like, “per meal?” meredith:per meal? i thought you were goingto say per day. errin:oh, my god.dr. pompa:believe me. i don’t get that in a day, right? i just said that. the poor guy,i mean, just absolutely—but i mean, the

point is is that, diets today, they call thatlow carb, my god. the point is, though, that you have to shift the diet. anyways, i wantedto… errin:yeah. no. that’s great. thank youfor that. we talk about it all the time. that multi-therapeutic approach is so key. it’snot just one thing. it’s all of them, and we’re all different. we’ve all gone throughdifferent things. we got to work at it and test things. that’s the key.dr. pompa:yeah. it’s different for everybody, right? i mean, that’s why most people whohave major challenges, they need a coach, right? they need someone who’s experiencedthis and knows what to do when. i mean, with the detox, even these fasts, the average healthyperson can experiment with it, but sick people,

there are so many things that happen. youhave to know what to do. errin:mm-hmm. yeah, absolutely.meredith:i think this is a great place to close. we have more questions, but i thinkwe’re up on the end of the hour and ending it with the multi-therapeutic approach. thatis the foundation for everything that we do to fix dysfunctional mitochondria, to fixour bodies when they’re not working, and we can’t lose weight, and our bodies andbrains aren’t functioning. that is the answer. it’s not one answer, but that is the answeris multi-therapeutic approach. errin:yeah.dr. pompa:look, we’re going to do another one of these shows i think, taking people’squestions. i think this was a great show.

we’re going to do it for the fasting, theintermittent fasting, because we probably created more questions. we’ll do anothershow on that. meredith, we have to do a show on diet variation as a separate show too becausethere’s a lot of strategies there that we can build on, and let’s gather some questionsfor that. we can have errin on anytime. i love bringing the third party in, so you justkeep bringing those questions, errin. we’ll keep brining you on.errin:i’m there. i’m there. oh, man, if only these podcasts could be five hours long.meredith:i know. [01:01:44]. we got to keep it in. errin, thank you for joining and beingan amazing part of the team and walking the talk and practicing what you preach, as weall do. i think that’s where the value comes

is that this isn’t us just reading fromtextbooks, but so much of this is personal experience. the clinical wisdom that you bringas well, dr. pompa, it’s so fun to talk about. we’re so excited to share, so ifyou’re watching and you have more questions, send them in. submit them, and we’ll domore q & a’s in the future. thanks so much, errin and dr. pompa, and thanks, everybody,for watching. it’s been so fun. dr. pompa:see you. see you, guys.errin:thank you, guys. meredith:al right, have a great weekend, everybody.we’ll see you next week.